Can we just agree that there are casualties on both sides, that people from 14 March died by gunfire as well as people from the opposition? And that People were injured, also by gunfire from both sides!! Is these people’s blood redder than those?
It is becoming ridiculous, as if we live in two separate universes. Al Manar Tv shows only the dead and injured of the opposition and Future TV shows only the casualties of 14 March!!
Both camps express their peacefulness and blaming the other for all the attacks, accusing them of trying to lead the country back into civil war.
Meanwhile, more blood is flowing in the streets and hate fills the hearts of ordinary people from both camps.
Even sensible people are being drawn in this blind violence and hatred. From here to a full fledge civil war there is only a step, half a step, no step at all...
My daily commute is becoming a Russian roulette. Will I be able to come back, will I see my parents again, will I die by a stray bullet. And you know bullets are blind, a March 14 bullet will kill me as fast as a Hezbollah bullet will do!
Tomorrow we were supposed to celebrate my upcoming birthday in Music Hall, one of Beirut’s most prominent night club. The booking secretary did not even complain or ask why, when we canceled the 12 person reservation.
Our country life is being sucked dry, meanwhile television stations and leaders from both camps have nothing better to do that run picture of injured people from their sides and blame the opposing faction.
Is your blood redder than mine?
19 comments :
Bob,
When I I criticize HA I usually do that because they are much worse than the alternative, Yet in the final analysis you are absolutely correct by saying Pox on both of their houses. Isn't there anyone who will advance a Lebanese agenda? Do we have to choose between being either Iranian/Syrian puppets or Saudi Arabia's agents?
ghassan karam,
Insightful comment.
I agree that both sides are going too heavy into the abyss. Especially when it isn't in March 14th's favor at all, like it is in HA's, who quests for chaos.
Lebanon just secured over $7 Billion in foreign aid. This is far more than HA has received this year from Iran ($600 million annual plus $300 million for special reconstruction of HA only neighborhoods in the South).
Stand down March 14th, you are on the cusp of victory, if you can just hold your tempers!
Looking at the "writing on the wall" so far, March 14th has a great deal to be hopeful for in its pursuit of peace and patience, while so close to the end of this long difficult road to prosperity.
If March 14th continues to lose it's cool, they then play HA's game of war and it throws the recent money secured for economic improvement along with the planned reforms, including the most significant: the privatization of electricity and mobile phone sectors.
Privaticed electricity is far more efficient, far reaching, and will in turn deliver the best services to consumers and new businesses so that they, too, can perform at their best and begin to rejuvenate the Lebanonese economy.
The mobile phone network is also a monster opportunity, and you'll be flooded with tons of capital (not to mention jobs) from international phone companies looking to broaden their market in an unincumbered privatized sector.
A Lebanese economy on the mend is a crushing blow to HA, crippling their ability to wreak havoc.
Simply don't give into rage March 14th!
Your boycotting of violence in the name of resilence of your peaceful cause today, will lead to the end of HA tomorrow.
Looking to Iran, there is again good news, even if it comes from "Saudi Arabia's agents".
It has to do with the "Oil War" Saudi Arabia has begun to wage against Iran:
“While a barrel of oil costs the Saudis $2-3 to get out of the ground and to market, that same barrel costs Iran as much as $15-18.”
http://regimechangeiniran.com/2007/01/oil-war-against-iran/
As soon as the second US Carrier Battle group enters the Persian Gulf,
expect Saudi Arabia to let the oil spigget flow wild.
Iran is seeing the second US carrier arriving as a hostile act, when it is actually a defensive move to protect not only Saudi Arabia, but several of the other Gulf States as they let their oil output increase (greatly I'm assuming) to the point it bankrupts Iran.
A bankrupt Iran, means no money and guns to funnel to HA. An HA without money and guns is no longer a threat, but just another backwards militia relic from the 20th century.
Contrastly, a wide spread civil war in Lebanon now, might cause a different response by either the US, Israel, or any of the Arab nations to act prematurely ahead of this "Oil War" being waged leading to a path of aggression that culminates in a strike against Iran's nuclear sites, in part to quell the violence in Lebanon and show Iran it's meddling will no longer go unpunshed.
This would be unfortunate because it would play directly into the mullahs hands who have uncomfortable plans for Lebanon:
"Tehran has also speeded up arms deliveries to its clients in Lebanon, with an eye on using any confusion created by a U.S. attack on Iran as a cover for seizing power in Beirut. The plan is to set up a Committee of Public Safety - headed by the Chistian ex-General Michel Aoun but effectively controlled by Hezbollah."
http://www.iran-press-service.com/ips/articles-2007/january-2007/iran_west_26107.shtml
The party of the future's choice to stay clear headed and on the path to a peaceful nation, once and for all, or to take a much darker one will have a resonance for years to come just as previous civil wars have.
March 14th, HA has asked you to join them in a bloody dance.
I implore you to sit this one out in order to secure for yourself a far nobler and worthier dance partner.
This is BS no one in the opposition used guns on others.
The pro-government militias either shot and killed unarmed civilians or were killed by the army and security forces defending its life or the lives of others.
Equating the killer and the victim is unacceptable.
Sam
For the Nth time refrain from such words plz.
you do see the problem of your position do you?
I was trying to be open to get back in the deserted middle ground, but when you blame it all on 14 march what do you think my reaction will be?
So just to correct your info, three people from march 14 were killed by GUNFIRE and 35 injured also by bullets. Wonder who shot them...
But no, Sam denies our blood and see only one side... Good for you... That is the way to respond to my opening... that is the way to reach the middle ground. Just be blinded by one side argument, ignore the tears of mothers of marc 14 and blam it all on us.
and claim that your movement was totaly peacfull. Burning tires? blocking roads? hitting people? breaking cars? all peacfull methods.
GOOD FOR YOU, at least now i know why i should fully support march 14, but i will be more objective than you are. When they make a mistake i will point at it, even if you do not point to any of HA
Sam
Before you ask here are the names of our dead. Is your dead blood redder than ours!!!! Can you still call some victims and other not? Don’t they have mothers!!!!
Bilal Haeik and Khaled Ahmad Khaled from future Movement in Tripoli and Riad Abi Khattar from the Lebanese Forces in Batroun.
And You pushed to say this, but if you want to know how many injured fell from each side just check the hospitals, for even hospitals have turned into sectarian enclaves in our country, like everything else.
So HA and Amal injuries go to the Rassaoul al Ahzam Hospital in Dahia, and 14 March injuries go to Makassed, AUH and Rafik Hariri Hospital. What a sad sad country we live in...
And knowing your esteem to Al-akhbare newspaper here is a part of an article by Nicolas Nassif (25-01-07) that says that there are no longer victims and aggressor, they have all become aggressors
سيمر وقت طويل قبل أن ينسى اللبنانيون ما حدث الثلاثاء الفائت في بلادهم. شريعة غاب أدارت علاقات الطوائف بعضها ببعض، وداخل كل طائفة. كذلك هي حال قوى 14 آذار والمعارضة. لم يعد ثمة معتدى عليه ومعتد، بل الجميع تصرّفوا كأنهم معتدون.
I came across some further illustration about the newly budding commercial initiatives to start resolving some of the Lebanese economic deadlock.
Of course, you've probably all seen this article as well, it being from 'The Daily Star':
"It's not just we dump some money there. They're very interested in building something that's sustainable. When you invest in a country, you make money for everybody.
"We want to show US support for Lebanon is not just government funds. The American people want to work with the Lebanese people."
http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=1&categ_id=3&article_id=78962
Here's also an Iranian dissident's view of the future course for Lebanon along with warnings about the ambitions of Iranian and Syrian regimes as quoted from some of their political officials:
"Another reason for Hezbollah's move is the Irano-Syrian desire to use Lebanon in war against Israel. As Syrian Foreign Minister Walid al-Muallim has said, a neutral Lebanon would deprive Syria of the "hinterland" it needs to deal with a putative Israeli blitzkrieg. Iran also needs Lebanon as a base for "flooding Israel with missiles," as Defense Minister Mostafa Najjar has noted."
Anyways, I was happy to log on here and see that much of the tempers have been quelled without any new major escalations, meaning that Lebanon's "suicide attempt" is becoming less and less a risk.
"Live Free or Die" was quoted in few blogs back in praise of HA's efforts.
"The phrase comes from a toast written by General John Stark on July 31, 1809"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_Free_or_Die
It's a simple motto, but there's a passage by Thomas Paine that I have always found to carry significant weight during times of strife.
It was written when the American Revolution was very much on the brink of a dark abyss without any hope in sight.
So Paine, author of "Common Sense" (the firebrand piece of literature that did much to spark the fight for American Independence), camped alongside the beleagured soldiers of Valley Forge and penned the following as a rallying cry for everyone who had seen their previous hopes for freedom from foreign domination slowly and steadily disappearing:
"THESE are the times that try men's souls.
The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands by it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman.
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph.
What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value.
Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as FREEDOM should not be highly rated."
http://12.164.81.10/paine/index.htm
[Excerpt from "The Crisis"]
I've always found it to be a profound quote. And obviously there's still a lot of uncertainty and challenges ahead in Lebanon(if not the world as well).
If your anger, frustration, and rage burn as hot and intense as a thousand suns, capable of incredible destruction, is this energy not equally capable of awesome acts of creation?
To divert the internal fire of every man, woman, and child towards the rebuilding of a Lebanon, capable of withstanding the damage of a hundred civil wars, and a million Israeli bombardments with a model democracy, economy, and peace; would this not be a positive and worthwhile task?
On the more technical front, in light of potential roadblocks, either now or in the future, have you considered setting up a system of bus or taxi services of 4 wheel drive SUV's capable of taking some of the nearby off road routes around critical blockades to get people to work?
Their ranks may be many, but still not enough to cover every patch of soil to and from town.
This would be a good example of an economy carrying on in the face of adversity, taking the circumstances at hand, and still prevailing.
Since many of the restaurants that find themselves without patrons who are fearful of coming under attack if they go out at night, is a chef still not a chef in a different location?
I worked in a few restaurants a couple years ago, and aside from some of the heavy duty ovens and excessive refrigeration capacity, could not some of these same restaurants operate out of homes in safer communities?
A throwback to how many restaurants first got their start a century or two ago.
Just some thoughts, and know that there are many abroad rooting for the success of March 14th and the overall Lebanese country.
Bob,
>>three people from march 14 were
>>killed by GUNFIRE and 35 injured >>also by bullets. Wonder who shot
>>them...
I just told you, it is the army and/or then security forces (amn el aam), because they were shooting on them and the others.
No one's blood is more important than that of the others that is exactly why we need to know who killed who and who was shooting.yes we have to be precise: no one from the opposition was shooting, just admit it.
oops the previous message was from Sam
You know Sam you have to be more consistent. On one side the opposition say that Amen Al Aam are on our side and they are the private militia of March 14 and then you claim that they shot on us!!!
Second could you plz tell me where did you get your information that I have to admit??? And if this is the case I will also claim that the opposition’s dead were killed by the Army and ISF because they were shooting on them!!
And even on Thursday two people from March 14 were also killed and not by the Army or security forces.
One last prove that what you said is wrong, March 14 are already criticizing the army for supposedly not doing its job (I ll deal with this issue in a later post) what do you think they would have done if they found out that the army killed several of their supporters!! Weird that we did not hear any March 14 politicians blame the army for all these killings you claim that the army was responsible for!
Admitted Sam, you are wrong!!!
happy birthday :)
You people are all losing your minds!
Please stop saying opposition forces shot march 14 forces, and march 14 forces shot opposition forces.
people from both sides were killed, yet the main ppl in the fights (the students) from both sides were unarmed...apparently a 3rd party was involved..this 3rd party is teh one responsible for trying to ignite a lebanese civil war. call them what you want, syrians, jews, al-qaeda, btu in the edn we are all stupid enough to keep pointing the blame at eachother when there's an obvious perpetrator from he outside...
come on peopel, by hating and blaming and nto being able to forgive we are adding mroe flam to the brink of civl war, when chatrooms like this are made by and for people who want to think and speak intelligently and for peace..
love each other, it hurts like hell for a leb like me outside of lebanon to watch my brothers attack one another in lebanon...
peace
Bob,
There might be tentative from the team in power to control the
leadership of the Amn El Aam but on the personal level the
Amn el am is not on any side.
It this the Amn el Aam that said that they shot back at
pro-government militias, not me.
Did you see the pictures of the people shooting with weapons?
Many of them are known BY NAME.
Example: Hassan Saidaoui
This guy is known to be very active in the al mustakbal, he was photographed shooting at people. So what I was saying is that you have to admit that pro-government people were shooting on the opposition, and as a
peace loving person, you should denouce it.
Now can you give me one name of one opposition person shooting at anyone?
Do you have a single picture showing that?
(By the way not a single party even suggests that)
>March 14 are already criticizing the army for supposedly not doing its job
This doesn't prove anything concerning the opposition.
>Weird that we did not hear any March 14 politicians blame the army for
>all these killings you claim that the army was responsible for!
Someone shot them and it wasn't the opposition, that even the pro-government parties recognize. On the other hand, more than 30 army guys were wounded with bullets and it wasn't the opposition either.
You do the conclusion: they shot at each other.
> oops the previous message was from Sam
Yeah, it put up my last two posts as "Anonymous", too (probably a glitch in the recent BLOG software version).
>Now can you give me one name of one opposition person shooting at anyone?
Do you have a single picture showing that?
Given stories about HA's tactics of intimidation and camera shy nature (to say the least) as told by Lily on this blog might be reason why no "smoking gun" pic of a HA member exists.
Or maybe picture was snapped, but the photographer is mysteriously nowhere to be found.
Aside from that, yeah, increase the peace. There's nothing productive to come of more violence.
Especially, since if you just wait about two-three months, HA's main financier (Iran) will be significantly cash strapped due to the upcoming methodical plunge in oil prices by the Saudi's and the rest of the GCC.
And a cash strapped Iran, means an even weaker Syria.
Slavic Mike,
Why are there no pictures of opposition members shooting: because they were not, plain and simple!
It was interesting to read about your claims of HA camera intimidation tactics when pro
HA reporters were... shot at and rushed to hospital with bullet wounds.
The same thing happened with Aoun supporters who were taking pictures.
You see, unless they have four hands, it would've been
difficult for the pro government militia people to shoot
bullets and pictures at the same time!
Plus what would they do with the pictures of opposition guys
and journalists bleeding with bullet wounds?
Sam,
You're obviously back in "fiesty mode" (I wonder if it has anything to do with the burgeoning split within the Lebanese Shiite community over supporting HA?)
I'm not on the ground in Lebanon (and neither are you) so I do put more stock in reports by people like Lily (who lives in Lebanon) about the repressive measures of HA in dealing with crowd control.
Bob's been good about countering whatever accusations you have on this subject, so I'd just say cross apply his arguments and I'm off to the next thread "Past lessons"
It's interesting to call someone who is shot at and refuses to answer back...repressive.
Hey did you watch 'true lies' yet?
Sam
you choose to believe that HA did not shoot at us, then you are free. But reality on the ground is people forom 14 March died and were injured, and not from army fire!!!
Moreover if you care to look closely all fights happened inside areas, with a large majority of Future moevemnt support, when HA supporters invaded these areas and stared attacking people and destroying their properties!! that makes you wonder why HA and the rest invade these areas and why did they enter them in the first place. peacfull demonstration in the middle of "Tarik Jdideh" ????
You make the whole thing look as if 14 March went to Dahia and killed a few HA supporters. However the opposit happened!!!!
Maybe next time 14 march should hold a sit in against Nassrallah and brun his picture in the middle of Dahia or Nabatieh!! what do you think?????
Bob,
The scuffle started at the university and than spilled in the area around it.
The opposition did not shoot on anybody however the pro government militia started shooting on everybody, and there are tons of pictures that proove it, including 30 Lebanese army soldiers who were wounded by bullets (and 10 wounded in a different way).
But I'll go further, we have the right to demonstrate in ANY area in Lebanon, including tarik Jdide, to ask for a clean inclusive government without been shot at, whether you like it or not.
Now concerning burning pictures in Dahie (I don't know what the aim would be or accomplishment that would make but), please be my guest, there might be scuffles but no one will shoot on you.
Sam
Of course, your totally right and unbiased, only 14 march shoot people, while Ha did not return fire and it was some stray “divine” bullets that killed three of our own ppl and injured more than 30!!
Of course!! And bytheway less Manar TV and more different channel will show you that there are also other footage that shows a different picture!
As always it is all 14 march fault and HA are the angles no blame ever falls on them!!
Finally there is a big difference btw demonstrating and closing roads and burning tires.
For more comments on this subject you can post them on the latest posts.
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