In the wake of the latest war, 14 march came out with a new slogan that evolved into a full fledge campaign. It is simply "I love life”. It was a sort of response to Hezbollah’s violent and death adulating creed. In other words, we want to live in peace, no more wars, no more death…
The “I Love life” campaign grew (you can check the website here), and frankly it was very successful. It consisted of several radio and TV commercials and open air events (like the big new years eve party) and most of all billboards, in three languages, all over Lebanon.
Below you can see two example of March 14 campaigne:
"We want to live"However A few days ago the opposition came up with their own response to the “I Love Life” campaign. They opted to add, under the same slogan used by March 14, a word that expressed the opposition’s inclinations.
For example:
The billboards to the right says: "We want to live, IN PEACE"
"We want to live, IN DIGNITY"
"...,IN SAFETY" and the second one "I love life, IN All ITS COLORS"
Finally, I will leave it to you to judge the efficiency and creativity of the opposition response to March 14 campaign.
27 comments :
Bob,
You were talking about packaging: the opposition is getting there!
But again I would prefer people focus on the content rather than the form.
Sometime it is better to have a war rather than live humiliated.
Do you know the quote from Kill Bill:
"When fortune smiles on something as violent and ugly as revenge, it seems proof like no other that not only God exists, you're doing his will"
God bless Hezbollah!
On thing March 14th could do, add to the bottom "without hezbollah"...
Sam,
As usual I would have to disagree.
With Al-Mansar, they've definitely had their propaganda machine going full force for awhile now.
Even I've seen some of their hip "Death to Israel" music videos floating around on the web.
But I do agree content is the issue and forever and a day how is HA supposed to cultivate jobs while their simultaneously causing an economic depression with their current actions, especially in the realm of tourism, since no one wants to visit a place on the verge of civil war?
But your courts bringing the corrupt to justice will take care of all that, right?
Again, how do convictions create jobs?
What's it about military guys who assume running an economy is a simple task compared to running a war?
Chavez, following his re-election under less than transparent circumstances, declared a few days ago that he will proceed with the full nationalization of the telecommunications and oil markets(something he had previously promised never to do).
Following this news, the venezuelan currency went from 2,150 to the US dollar down to 4,000. And because he's double dipping with his military expenditures and other pet projects, inflation which is currently at 17%, is expected to hit 40% during 2007.
Not to mention the lower oil prices coupled with the fact that nationalization of the telecommunications industry, which in the past led to a 10 year wait for some Venezuelans just to get a phone line put in, will make economic prosperity hard to resurrect when the current bottom drops out following these nationalization moves.
Ahmed Najid, fairs no better as the former Revolutionary Guard who served as an interrogator and executioner at prisons during the Iran-Iraq War turned President.
Since taking office, he's managed to neglect already ailing industries, ignoring rapidly rising unemployment, inflation, and poverty all in the midst of record high oil prices.
Much of this inflation has to do with his spending like a mad man on every jihadi with a request for money from fanatical Somalians seeking arms in the horn of Africa, to Palestinians, and of course Lebanon's HA chapter who are by the way, training Hamas on Lebanese soil to fight against Israel, so you may want to call up the immigration services to toss them out since you dislike Palestinian "trespassers" so much.
Point is, what qualifications does Nasrallah have to lead a country's economy?
What's he going to do?
Put the guy that used to keep inventory on how many AK-47's they had in stock now in charge of deciphering the best interest rates to assess on local banks, setting tax rates, housing sector incentives, how to pay for rebuilding war torn areas in Beirut and North Lebanon, and what about funding education?
HA simply isn't qualified to be in charge, and not just because of the billion dollar loss of the one utility they were entrusted with(either by incompetence, embezzlement for arms, or both).
You talk about a $40 billion dollar debt now(of which $1 billion belongs to HA with their utility blunder), what do you think it will be when the Lebanonese economy is wiped out through poor management, future aggressions against Israel, a boycot by European and Arab tourists, a boycott by the West, in general, similar to the one in place against the Palesitinian government under Hamas.
Given the evidence so far, Nasrallah might break the $100 billion debt mark. Of course he can always rely on the Iranians for money, can't he? But then again, the pockets of Iran are only so deep.
They currently are paying for their own Nuclear Weapons Progam, their domestic military, HA in Lebanon, HA in South America, HA in Saudi Arabia, the whole Iraq insurgency arming both Shia and a few Sunni groups, keeping Syria's regime propped up, funding Hamas, and also aiding Somalian fanatics, President Mugabe, and who knows else.
Oil prices are dropping, all major European banks have either severely cut back or all together ended their financial dealings with Iran, oil deals are being put on hold, and the Iranian infrastructure is slowly collapsing. The financial umbilical chord is sooner or later going to be cut.
Nasrallah and HA are simply not smart enough to rule and soon won't be able to afford to rule.
They ought to just stick to what they know best, carrying out Iran and Syria's bidding as a small guerrilla force in Southern Lebanon.
>"When fortune smiles on something as violent and ugly as revenge, it seems proof like no other that not only God exists, you're doing his will"
There's a lot of irony in you quoting Quentin Tarantino, a skinny cokehead American whose body of work includes some of the most graphically violent films ever produced in the US.
>God bless Hezbollah!
Not very secular of you.
Jeha,
Adding your quote would be missing the whole point of the "With colors" sign, which by definition is meant to signal that EVERYBODY should be included.
See, start looking at the content rather than just sticking to the form.
Where is "The Truth"?
Syria is cooperating but a lot of countries are NOT!
Russia is asking for the names of countries that are not cooperating with the probe on who killed Hariri.
The Lebanese deserve to know.
Why is israel refusing to cooperate with the inquiry by providing info concerning overflying and reconaissance of the zone after and before the crime?
Why is France refusing that Mhammad el seddik be independantly interviewed by the inquiry team?
Why is Germany giving Lehmann immunity to prevent him from testifying concerning the RECORDED conversation with Jamil el sayyed?
Why is Australia not cooperating by providing the info on the 6 Australian Hajj pilgrims from Lebanese descent that the Lebanese secret service suspected and that arrived on the day of the crime?
Why is Saudi Arabia refusing to tell the probe if those individuals really did go on pilgrimage and how they got in and out of the kingdom? Why are they refusing to confirm or infirm that one of them was suspected of belonging to al Qaeda? Why are they not providing info about the interrogation of a member of a 13 member gang that had relations with Ahmad abou Adass and Khaled Taha who disappeared mysteriously?
Why is the US refusing to provide satellite imagery they have of the crime? Why are they refusing to cooperate?
Interesting.
Does this government want "The Truth" or is it just doing business with Hariri's blood?
Al haqiqa bedna El Haqiqa!
right?
Slavic Mike,
Here is the link to the document you couldn't find:
http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/templateC04.php?CID=260
read it carefully. It states clearly that Hezbollah's decision making is independant from Iran and Syria.
If is the (pro israeli) Near East Policy Institute that says it!
Plus a lot of technical info on Hezbollah's fighting superiority over israel: enjoy!
Sam
I ll address your comment later but one quick question first: Godbless HA???
Didn'tyou claim to be an atheist?
I am confused! Are you an atheist or not? there is no middle ground in this.
Second point, funny that they say "I love life" in all its color and they put the logo of the opposition that ONLY have the colors of the opposition!!!
PEACE
Sam
U say “it is better to have a war than live humiliated”, and amazingly all the supporters of the oppositions that I know (including you) they say the same “ rather war than …...” it seems war for you is an option and this is exactly what this campaign is talking about!
For the 14 of March supporters war is never an option, this is just a forbidden issue, no war under any exceptions, just Life with a big L. No additions, no details and no conditions; LIFE and only LIFE. In this word you can find all the details you want, you don’t need to add anything to it. The oppositions put condition to life, “life in colors” or else we make war, “life in dignity” or else we make war………...
It is only in Life that we have the assurance to achieve all our goals and needs as human beings.
I am sorry but no, war is not better than life under any circumstances, Life is the only choice. Just LIFE!!!!
Lily
Bob,
I think that religion should be separated from politics.
The exact word would be secular.
I'm not an atheist I'm a secular.
Lily,
Everybody loves life (at least I hope so) but what kind of life? When a Lebanese such as Nasim Nisr is behind bars you have to ask yourself: what are we going to do about it? The same applies to the Lebanese in Syrian prisons. I'm shocked no one in the government is talking about them either. Only private associations are trying to do something. If they are alive they should be freed. If they are dead we want to know when, where, How, where they are now...
I'm against war except in the case of self defense (or assimilated) and that seems to be a difference between us.
Example: During the israeli occupation in the 90s every week Lebanese civilians died in attacks israel would call "accidents". When Hezbollah started responding in kind (if israel shells a village, HA shells an israeli village) like by magic the "accidents" started to happen only once or twice a YEAR. Now that is what I call saving lives a lot of them, thousands of them.
Yes I love life... more than you think!
Sam
You ask me: What kind of life?? I tell you all kinds of life are worse living. We just have to live our life in peace and make the best of it.
I am not ready to make a war for Nasim Nisr neither a war for those Lebanese prisoners in Syria, but I will support and do my best to get them out with negotiations, it is not in war that they can be free.
What did we achieve in all our Lebanese wars?? What were the benefits out of our wars??
What did we achieve in the last war (July)?? Did we free any of them?? No we just watched innocent children die, and we did nothing to free them.
You know Nasim Nisr is an adult man that have chosen a path for his life , he choose to defend his country, I respect him for that and I don’t accept him being captured but I think that he is responsible of his acts and he knew the consequences of his choice. These kids that died in Merwahine and in Kana we are responsible of them they didn’t choose to die or fight we didn’t give them the chance to become adults and make such a choice, we are responsible of their death as much as the Israelis are!!! And for the sake of those kids we shouldn’t allow any more death for the sake of all the other living children war shouldn’t be an option.
Even in self defense it is better to respond in a peaceful way cause if u do respond aggressively you will start a circle of violence that will be hard to end. I teach my kids that when a kid beats them I teach them not to respond by beating him back because he will beat back again and my kid will respond back and there we go with a big fight and one of them will get hurt and it will stop only if somebody comes and separates them. But if he looks him back in the eye holds his hand and tells him firmly and strongly to stop, not to beat, that he is hurting him and that it is not allowed to do so, he has much more chances to get a quick end to violence, and this is not coward ness, it is smartness and strength. When you act like your enemy you are no better then him!
I don’t believe in that saying “eye for an eye” I believe you have to be better and smarter than your enemies, if Israelis are murderers should we be like them?? What had HA done?? The attacks are still happening once or twice a year as you say, and a war happened in July!!! I think if HA had negotiated for peace there would have being no attacks and no war!!!!
Why should we choose between live in war or live humiliated?? Why such a choice?? I am sure we can find another way to solve our humiliation. But if you really insist I will choose to live in humiliation rather than war!! Yes!!
Cause in life I will always have hope to get ride of my humiliation, there will always be a way for me and I will try my best. If I choose war there will be no hope anymore, I will either die or kill, and in both cases I am finished and hope is finished.
Lily
Lily,
I respect your position, we are just different on this.
If someone kidnaps my son I will kidnap his to get mine back.
I would do it without hate but I would still do it.
Sam,
Out of all my points about HA being in no way qualified to run a government due to their gross lack of education and understanding of pertinent economic issues, and a tendency toward incompetence with the small amount of government power they have now, you choose to dispute whether or not the Israeli Prime Minister said that Nasrallah was "the most courageous man on earth"?
Now you originally cited a Romanian newspaper, but provided a link to a military diagnostic of HA. I didn't find the quote or reference to it in the piece.
What page is it on? Was it in the footnotes?
And even if it was, it doesn't provide the context of the comments as in Olmert could have meant:
"Hassan Nasrallah's ability to align himself with Iran, knowing that the mullahs would soon be deposed by both internal and foreign forces makes him THE MOST COURAGEOUS MAN ON EARTH"
Without the full article, no one can tell if this comment is really a compliment or insult.
>Plus a lot of technical info on Hezbollah's fighting superiority over israel: enjoy!
You obviously didn't pay attention to the last paragraph which stated:
"U.S. military planners, however, should take heart from the fact that when the IDF was able to mass combat power and make effective use of combined arms, it roundly defeated Hizballah's formations-even in their makeshift village fortresses."
This really just says that the IDF's biggest mistake wasn't taking HA seriously when they first attacked and when they did, they stomped them something serious.
And because Olmert isn't in charge anymore when it comes to the war strategy, HA is risking Lebanon's entry into another larger, bloodier war with a now determined Israel.
But the good news is probably that the IDF will realize they have little to gain from targeting civilian rich populations in search of HA and go straight for the jugular of HA in the South where the bulk of their weapons caches and training grounds are.
>>Where is "The Truth"?
>>Syria is cooperating but a lot of countries are NOT!
Russia is asking for the names of countries that are not cooperating with the probe on who killed Hariri.
The Lebanese deserve to know.
Why is israel refusing to cooperate with the inquiry by providing info concerning overflying and reconaissance of the zone after and before the crime?
Why is France refusing that Mhammad el seddik be independantly interviewed by the inquiry team?........(and so on)
For someone who's really into justice you don't seem to know much about judicial practices.
Making public this information prior to the Hariri tribunal is the equivalent of the prosecution leaking its evidence to the defense.
Doing so would give the defense attorneys more time to prepare their defense giving them an unfair advantage in court.
And then there's the other practical reason: providing the names of prosecution witnesses prior to the trial runs the risk of Syria trying to "make them disappear" before they reach the witness stand.
This was common practice of the italian mob in the US from the 1920's-1980's at the height of mob rule of the criminal underworld.
Much like Nasrallah, Al Capone, for example, commanded his own highly regimented militia while taking part in various crimes and acts of violence; and he too used much of the money he stole to setup soup kitchens during the Great Depression to win over the needy people of Chicago.
It was from his charitable acts that he was able to get away with killing off witnesses for the prosecution in trials against him.
Nasrallah may be deeply involved in the assassinations taking place on behest of Syria, but because of his version of soup kitchens, HA supporters stay quiet and look the other way. It's of course speculation, but he certainly has the network, weapons, financing, ability to intimidate, to carry out such moves.
So, that's the reason for not disclosing this information prior to the Hariri Tribunal.
Now, if the trial takes place and none of the questions you've asked get answered, then you may have a point.
So how about we keep March 14th in power and let the Hariri Tribunal proceed and we can find out.
>>When Hezbollah started responding in kind (if israel shells a village, HA shells an israeli village) like by magic the "accidents" started to happen only once or twice a YEAR
In the lead up to the Israel-HA War, HA was launching rockets into Israel on a daily basis for months before the kidnapping took place trying to provoke a war. That's not defensive, that's purely OFFENSIVE.
>>“it is better to have a war than live humiliated”
In short I'll say you don't want to live under the humiliation of foreign occupation now(still don't know exactly who the occupiers are other than phantom "zionists"), but what did you consider the decades of Syrian occupation? Or did you not consider that occupation at all?
Which begs the big question....
What are your actual views?
WHAT ARE YOUR ACTUAL MOTIVES HERE?
Now, I can play off the occasional misinformed comparison in a ill advised justification of authoritarianism like the "US Supreme Court is just like the Iranian Regime's Council of Experts."
I can dismiss such a blunderous comparison as you just simply not knowing enough about the two groups.
And I can understood your views a lot more now, because your father was a member of the SSNP, so he's obviously influenced your thoughts versus my original hypothesis of your pro-HA views being from resentment for personal insults about your heritage on behalf of Europeans.
But, you've been doing some serious
flip-flopping.
Of most recent, you're one minute ATHEIST and then suddenly SECULAR?
There's a big difference. It's pretty difficult to mix-up the two. One's religious and the other is political.
And on the SECULAR front, you're a big fan of HA, or as it translates in English to mean "PARTY OF GOD" which is run by Hassan Nasrallah, appointed by Iranian "supreme guide" Ali Khameini's as his religious leader in Lebanon.
Which brings us to your disdain for FOREIGN INFLUENCE in Lebanon, which is exactly what HA is, an instrument working on behalf of Iran and Syria receiving a budget of several hundred million dollars, soon approaching a billion dollars on an annual basis.
And then we go to your praise and respect for Nasrallah's commitment to non-violence and never seeking VENGEANCE:
>"They can kill a thousand Hammoud but we will not respond and we will never use our weapons against any Lebanese"-Hassan Nasrallah
And soon after this post under "Futile charge!", you turn around on this current post and give a "Kill Bill" quote about the glory of VENGEANCE, which begs the question, who do you want VENGEANCE against and why?
And then you go on about:
>“it is better to have a war than live humiliated”
This makes you come off as a real "war-hawk" with a real interest in VIOLENCE instead of the relatively peaceful conscientious person you've up until now portrayed yourself as.
Now, I'm sure you'll claim that your pension for VIOLENCE is merely your belief that it is a necessary means in the pursuit of JUSTICE.
But in knowing that one of HA's objectives, along with preventing disarmament, is to keep the Hariri Tribunal from taking place.
HA doesn't seem like a very JUSTICE oriented group in light of this.
And that sounds pretty CORRUPT, something that HA is supposed to be free of but according to the 2003 article that I cited on the previous post:
http://www.meib.org/articles/0308_l1.htm
About mass corruption in the nationalized electricity utilities in Lebanon showing that HA communities were receiving free electricity for years now prior to the Cedar Revolution.
Walid Jumblatt was actually whistle blower on the corruption and Hariri was pushing for privitization of the electricity utility that would've ended the corruption and greatly improved the service to the Lebanese people, but the free market move was blocked by Pro-Syrian groups.
The unCORRUPT thing to do would've been for HA to proceed with privatization when they formerly took over the utility.
But they didn't, which in itself, screams of CORRUPTION
Which then made me think about how often you don't answer any of the numerous points I make about HA being CORRUPT because it accepts funding from foreign countries like Iran and Syria that have obvious agendas for Lebanon that are not for the benefit of the Lebanese people.
I can understand that it would be quite difficult to respond to all the points I make in my often long and reference filled posts, but you seem to side step them all.
It makes it seem like you really don't have an actual response to my retorts because the views you're espousing aren't really your own, but rather propaganda that you've heard from others and didn't really come up with on your own.
Otherwise, I would assume you would be better at making a legitimate COMMENT in response.
Of course, maybe my COMMENTs are still too long to pay attention to.
I write long posts because, along with having a lot of information to get out there, the time zone difference makes it impossible for me to keep pace with an ongoing realtime discussion set to your end of the world's clock.
On top of that, my schedule permits me to only be able to post on this blog every other day.
But you, Sam, you post a whole lot on this blog, more than anyone. Almost so much that I would think that it's your JOB.
I've heard about an Al Qaeda group whose JOB is to monitor YouTube videos and give the ones that are anti-terrorist, anti-Zawahiri, etc. the lowest rating possible by selecting only "one star" to prevent it from rising in popularity and getting more views.
Now, I'm obviously stretching it a bit for dramatic effect.
I'm sure you really are a Lebanese guy named Sam living in France.
But there's an awful lot of pecular things about your supposed views, posting regularity, and contradictory statements to at least wonder about who you really are in all this as far as WHAT YOUR REAL VIEWS AND MOTIVES ARE
Because you've obviously not been straight forward with them on this forum up to this point.
>>I'm sure you really are a Lebanese guy named Sam living in France.
You are wrong. But this blog is not about me it is about Lebanon.
The Olmert quote is not in the Near East Policy Hezbollah military prowess study. I refered to this study because it states that Hezbollah decision making is independant from Syria and Iran (which nullify all your talk about HA being an instrument of Iran or Syria).
The Olmert quote that "Hassan Nasrallah was the most courageous man on earth" was translated and reported to the Yediot Ahronot web site (but was removed after 30 minutes!)
I read the Near East Policy report very carefully and it said that the Hezbollah forced the ennemy to fight on HA's terms (which nullify's your quote) Plus the professional HA troops didn't even get a chance to intervene (an israeli general said that when that happens there would be 35 to 40 dead zionists a day in southern Lebanon). Now Hezbollah is preparing to get even much stronger.
Concerning the tribunal, the inquiry is not over so your quote (prosecution leaking evidence) is wrong. It would rather be entities (like the zionist entity) not cooperating with the prosecution inquiry (Hmmm I wonder why! if Syria had something to do with it one would think zionists would rush to help, unless they are trying to protect Syria which would be interesting to know too!)
>>In the lead up to the Israel-HA War, HA was launching rockets into
>>Israel on a daily basis for months before the kidnapping took
>>place
Never ever. Not a single time. You are not well informed or you are disinforming. I defy you to give ONE evidence of that.
Same for your "Death to the jews" quote. I defy you to give me ONE quote of Nasrallah saying that: he never attacks any religion, never ever.
>>who do you want VENGEANCE against and why?
What I was saying is that for the first time there is a force (HA) that stands up to israel and responds in kind to all its actions. That is fair. If something is fine for the zionists to do than... it is fair for HA (or anyone else) to do to the zionists!
Sometime things happen that seem to proove that god exists. You remember when the shuttle exploded with on board the zionist terrorist that had bombed beirut in 1982? it exploded over Palestine, Texas. Now this is what I called poetic justice.
Sam
Man made a social contract after he left the state of nature ( ie being a savage living on instinct) and part of this contract is to let justice be served by a judge and not take ones vengeance in ones hands.
I am sorry but your views are too extreme for me... And if you extended your logic, Israeli children, whose only sin is to be born in Israel (maybe it is God’s mistake cause we human do not choose our parents) have a right of vengeance over Hezbollah because they killed his father or mother! And maybe tomorrow they will launch some missiles and kill someone’s parents and then he will want vengeance too... ad infinitum...
sorry sam but no this is not how civilization is built. This is not the road to prosperity development or democracy. This is not “loving life” this is death!!!
You want vengeance i want justice. You want war I want peace and if I can't have them, i will wait. I will build a real country, economically strong, peaceful and then when i have the international influence and clout I will lobby the US government form the inside just like the Israeli do and get justice. Because believe, me your way will never never solve anything, look at history and learn...
Peace
PS: what was that about the shuttle that exploded over palestine?? what r you talking about!!!!
Bob,
>>I will lobby the US government form the inside just like the Israeli do
Believe me I really laughed when I read your quoted cause you chose probably the worst example to prove your point: israel has been in war since it declared it existed and it is lobbying the US... for more wars in the Middle East!!
But I see your point, we can be different and lobby for peace. In this case do you want to come join us in New York? if you want I can help you find a job here. If not (I don't blame you Lebanon is great) that means you are counting on others to lobby for you!
You know it is just the beginning but efficient associations are starting to organise: ACDC (Arab American Anti discrimination commitee)...
Sam,
>Believe me I really laughed when I read your quoted cause you chose probably the worst example to prove your point: israel has been in war since it declared it existed and it is lobbying the US... for more wars in the Middle East!!
How's that any different than Iran lobbying HA "for more wars in the Middle East!!"?
Other than, of course, the fact that the US and Israel don't keep their own populations in a state of constant oppression. And don't urge their followers to follow the path of violence over peace(not too many Americans or Israelis praising the virtues of strapping bombs to the chests of teenagers).
>But I see your point, we can be different and lobby for peace. In this case do you want to come join us in New York? if you want I can help you find a job here. If not (I don't blame you Lebanon is great) that means you are counting on others to lobby for you!
This ties in nicely with your previous comment:
>>>I'm sure you really are a Lebanese guy named Sam living in France.
You are wrong. But this blog is not about me it is about Lebanon.
I wasn't wrong. Your previous comment implied that you were living in France:
>"Concerning France: it is one of the most tolerant and wonderful countries on earth, I can see you have never been there: stop listening to Foxnews and come visit! I have never met any scorn though a lot of french don't even know that I have a Lebanese background. Actually when I tell them they like me even more!"
But now you're in NY. How you find the funds for such travel I'll never know, not to mention the VISA given to you inspite of your "happy go lucky" VENGEANCE based views on the world.
But then again, you're in the US, and such offenses are ultimately forgiven, not like in those lands you seem to turn a blind eye to (Syria and Iran).
So, enjoy your stay in the United States, further pointing out your incomprehensible logic of wanting to lobby the US through "ACDC"? (I'm sure you meant "AACDC") All the while cheering on from afar the HA Occupation of Lebanon, and hoping that your dreams of VENGEANCE will some day be answered.
I sure hope AACDC is as much fun as CAIR with it's condemnation of discrimination against Muslims in the US in social/workplace settings, all the while turning a blind eye to the executions of human rights advocates and women who are often killed by the state for fighting off rapists.
I can see how you naturally gravitated towards this group.
There is also the issue of you currently residing in the US and not knowing the difference between the US Supreme Court and the Iranian Council of Experts.
Such a mistake is forgiveable for someone living abroad, such as in France, but to actually be in the same country, doesn't bode well for your lobbying skills.
Sam,
>You remember when the shuttle exploded with on board the zionist terrorist that had bombed beirut in 1982? it exploded over Palestine, Texas. Now this is what I called poetic justice.
Well, I'm assuming you're talking about the 2005 Columbia Space Shuttle Disaster that exploded on reentry over Texas with debris falling on the town of Palestine along with several other towns in a 100 square mile radius in East Texas.
Now aside from the coincidence of finding similar comments celebrating the death of the former Israeli Air Force pilot on a Neo-Nazi website (funny how you guys always seem to flock together in mind and spirit), don't you think if it was "poetic justice" the shuttle would've exploded over Lebanon, Kansas? Lebanon, Missouri?? Lebanon, Virginia??? or Lebanon, Connecticut????
But along with your focus on debris falling in part on Palestine, Texas; I also noticed that a lot of debris fell in nearby Waco, Texas.
I'm assuming you've heard of this town, infamous for a FBI stand-off with David Koresh and his religious band of "Branch Davidians" that ended in bullets and explosions.
I noticed similarities between HA and Koresh's religiously inspired militancy and need to build an army. Koresh was also fearful of "zionist" forces taking over the world and believed that the only answer was to wipe out all non-Christians in the coming Apocalypse.
The other thing in common with the US's sporadic history of home grown Christian extremists and the Middle East's extremists is the poor and run down towns/conditions they come from.
The comparison is significant because the plumbing in these poorer neighborhoods (in the US and Southern Lebanon, for example) are more likely to have old plumbing using copper, lead, and other toxic metals.
These toxic metals when taken into the human system through drinking water, bathing, dish washing, etc. often have the effect of blocking certain nerve receptors in the brain and are linked to mental disorders such as paranoid schizophrenia: the feeling that there's someone or some group out to get you (like say "zionists" for example).
It might be the reason why HA has such a strong following in the poorer South of Lebanon than in the more modern and affluent Central and Northern Lebanon.
You might want to consider getting a hair or blood analysis done to check and see what the metal levels are in your system. Or, should I say, to measure how much of a true HA follower, you are.
You, and your compatriots blind observance and ignoring of the facts of who the true "good guys" are (hint: not HA, Syria, or Iran), makes sense in the context of you're all mentally ill.
And given, your living in New York, I have to make that assumption.
Not because of New York, itself, I've been there a few times and aside from the expensive tolls at the bridges and cost of living, its a fast-paced exciting place.
But, because you're residing in a city that is a great example of groups of people from all walks of life coexisting with one another, peacefully, despite have incredible differences in religion, ethnicity, politics, etc.
That you don't see this as an ideal model, and understand that it can only be achieved through PEACE and cooperation and not through an HA Occupation funded and supported by foreign oppressive governments like Syria & Iran to bring down the current government, can only be explained as you missing a few too many screws in the ol' noggin.
Especially, if you view the current March 14th government as an "occupation" through invisible "Zionist" forces following decades of REAL OCCUPATION by Syria.
While on the subject, what is YOUR definition of "Zionism", anyways?
The standard definition seems to be the view that Jews have the right to reestablish the Jewish homeland in its ancestral place.
Is this the full scale of what you're resisting or is there more to the definition in your eyes, such as the whole "new world order" view that they will somehow take over the globe, with some kind of unspecified horrible consequences?
>>How's that any different than Iran lobbying HA "for more wars in the Middle East!!"?
Lobbying is an "internal" action, in the country that is being lobbied.
>>the US and Israel don't keep their own populations in a state of constant oppression.
>>And don't urge their followers to follow the path of violence over peace
>>(not too many Americans or Israelis praising the virtues of strapping bombs to the chests of teenagers).
There is no oppression in Lebanon either, nor Iran. Iran has an elected parliament
with representatives from the Jewish community that can practice their faith freely,
openly voice their disareements with Ahmadinajad and proudly participate to
anti-zionist rallies. Wether you like it or not many jews believe that the biggest
danger to jews is zionism.
>>your "happy go lucky" VENGEANCE based views on the world.
As I said before, you might have missed it, by vengeance I just meant
reacting in kind and only in self defense.
>>So, enjoy your stay in the United States, further pointing out your incomprehensible logic of wanting
to lobby the US through "ACDC"? (I'm sure you meant "AACDC")
Actually it is the ADC (ACDC is a music group)
It is not "wanting" it is "already" lobbying for cutting aid to israel unless
they respect UN resolutions (194...).
>>I sure hope AACDC is as much fun as CAIR
CAIR is great too, they often participate to demonstrations
organised by the ADC.
>>There is also the issue of you currently residing in the US and not knowing the difference between the US Supreme Court and the Iranian Council of Experts.
They are different but have certain similarities.
>>Such a mistake is forgiveable for someone living abroad, such as in France, but to actually be in the same country, doesn't bode well for your lobbying skills.
France is a great country, My wife and I are planning to move back there in a few months.
As for lobbying, I don't talk myself, I just accompany a beautiful American girl (from Palestinian descent) she's the one who does all the talking,
she speaks much better than I do plus she has no accent at all.
>> finding similar comments celebrating the death of the former Israeli Air Force pilot on a Neo-Nazi website
Which site is that?
As for "celebrating" is too strong a word. I never celebrate someone's death, I think every death is a form of failure to the human kind.
I would rather say I "didn't regret" the death of the terrorist that was cowardly bombing Lebanese civilians from 30,000 feet.
>>The other thing in common with the US's sporadic history of home grown Christian extremists and the Middle East's extremists is the poor and run down towns/conditions they come from.
Here you couldn't be farther from the truth. Many Christian extremists in the US are zionists (because they think it will accelerate armageddon and the coming of the saviour)
Nice alliance of facists indeed!! (specially knowing that these christians think jews are all going strait to hell!)
>>It might be the reason why HA has such a strong following in the poorer South of Lebanon
The only eason HA is so popular is that it was the only one that fought israeli occupation, physical torture, kidnappings, vicious tactics and unprecedented cruelty while everybody else was sitting idly by.
>>You might want to consider getting a hair or blood analysis done to check and see what the metal levels are in your system.
That would be easy my mom is a doctor, do you need any yourself? (she can do it for free)
>>NY is a great example of groups of people from all walks of life coexisting with one another, peacefully, despite have incredible differences in religion, ethnicity, politics, etc.
That is so true. NY is so much like Lebanon in this regard and is so much different from the visceraly racist zionist entity that is throwing out anyone that is not Jewish.
>>While on the subject, what is YOUR definition of "Zionism", anyways?
If zionism was just the right to reestablish the Jewish homeland in its ancestral place, I would'nt have any problem with it.
The problems started when zionism also meant attacking and harrassing Palestinians, taking their homes and preventing them from returning to their land.
For you can say whatever you want the fact is no party or country in the Middle East is against jews. Jews have been living here for thousands
of years. In 2002 during the Arab league summit in Beirut, Arab countries unanimously recognised this in a resolution and a call for peace
toward israel. More than recognition of the right for jews to live in the Middle East, it was a regional integration. A few days later sharon's answer was to
assassinate dozens of Palestinian civilians, bombing them without any reason or provocation. We got the message, thank you.
Sam
HA are not the only ones who fought Israel, you should know better. Ask your father, and before the SNSP there was the communist and the Palestinians. So HA is only the last link in the chain, nothing very different or unique about them. And why they became the sole resistance group (if you can still call them that, now that they moved to Beirut…) Is because all other groups were eliminated and disarmed (now there is a big controversy here, but it is well known that HA fought the communist in the south as they were the only viable political alternative in the Shiite community, and eliminated many of them with the help of the Syrians, and HA also fought Amal for dominance in the south.)
So they killed their way to dominate the south not like you said they were the only ones resisting while the rest were sitting idle…
Saying that bombing from an aircraft is cowardly then what do you call hurling missiles from 50 miles away on civilians or maybe using car bombs and snipers??
This is modern warfare so the concepts of cowardly and brave acts of the middle ages do not apply here…
Bob,
First my father is dead and buried in Lebanon, I can't ask him anything.
Second, True, HA were not the only ones resisting occupation, I will never forget Sanaa mheidali who came from northern Lebanon.
When I said "everybody sitting idly" I meant "everybody complaining about HA today" who were sitting idly then.
When those heroes were fighting occupation, what were you doing in 2000 Bob? (because myself I was f...ing beautiful american girls on the beach in New Jersey...)
Yes, bombing civilians from an aircraft is cowardly and terrorist while hurling missiles 50 miles away on military bases is not.
HA only sent missiles on civilian areas after israel repeatedly did so for days in Lebanese civilian areas and wouldn't stop. Further more HA did so not to kill civilians but to compell israel to stop from doing so. HA said stop hitting purely civilian areas and they won't send a single missile on civilian areas and focus only on military targets. And indeed very few israeli civilians died most of the killed were military guys and that did not happen by chance par je ne sais quelle operation du saint esprit.
Even modern warfare has rules. israel used (to no avail) many weapons proscribed by the Geneva convention in civilian areas (fragmentation bombs, nerve gas...) while HA publicly stated that they were avoiding the Haifa refinery on purpose so they don't cause a carnage.
HA is far from perfect but if anything they prooved to be morally superior on this one.
Sam
First sorry about your father and good luck with your wife…
Second do I understand that the end is more important than the means? So if Israel’s action are, as you say, terrorist in nature we can also use these same tactics?
Where moral superiority and sticking to our principles no matter what the enemy does?
Or you just throw all that from the window and be an innocent civilian killer and relentless terrorist just because you have a good cause and your enemy is using “terrorist “methods.
I can’t accept this sort of logic and I will never use any evil way no matter what!!!
Now about using proscribed weapons. While I am not defending Israel but the UN report did not find any use of nerve gas and fragmentation weapons are not proscribed, their use against civilian is forbidden, so careful with your example…
Bob,
Not only fragmentation weapons were used in civilian areas but they were used for that specific purpose (targeting civilians). En effet these weapons were used AFTER the cessez le feu and that agreements were reached not during the conflict with HA.
Concerning your question (the end justifying the means) it is indeed a philosophical one and I respect your take on it. My position is that (as much as I hate to say it) if it ends up saving lives than I'm not against it, in other words is it better to have:
- 2000 lebanese civilians killed, 0 israeli civilian killed, 0 israeli refugee and their economy not affected
or
- 1200 Lebanese civilians killed, 34 israeli civilians dead, 300,000 israeli refugees and their economy affected like ours is?
Philosophical choice indeed. You choose 1, I choose 2. But again I respect your choice.
Back to the laundry list:
Sam,
>Lobbying is an "internal" action, in the country that is being lobbied.
Fine, if you want to go the semantics route.
Iran isn't "lobbying" HA to start wars, they're outright "paying" them to start wars with guns, training, and money.
>There is no oppression in Lebanon either
Lily and Bob have posted several examples of "oppression in Lebanon".
If you spent more time in Lebanon, instead of living it up in NY, USA, you would probably see the oppression they and many others are talking about.
>either, nor Iran. Iran has an elected parliament with representatives from the Jewish community that can practice their faith freely,
Jews in Iran are required by law to say a Muslim prayer before they can begin any of their own Jewish prayers, and conversion of any Muslim to a non-Muslim faith such as Judaism or Christianity is punishable by death.
Here's an example of "freedom of religion" for Christians in Iran:
http://www.iranpressnews.com/english/source/017274.html
>openly voice their disareements with Ahmadinajad and proudly participate to
anti-zionist rallies.
The students that protested Ahmadi Nijad at the Polytechnic University in Iran are currently in hiding for fear of their lives because Ahmadi Nijad's personal militia, the basij, is currently trying to hunt down and kill them.
http://regimechangeiniran.com/2006/12/basij-forces-hunting-down-stud/
> Wether you like it or not many jews believe that the biggest danger to jews is zionism.
I strongly doubt that:
http://www.iranpressnews.com/english/source/019293.html
And, just to touch on it, because it rarely gets mentioned, it's not a particularly good place for women:
http://iranian-girl.blogspot.com/2005/06/our-protest-against-violations-of.html
And for a pure example of this, check out the story below of Nazanin Fatehi who is currently on death row for stabbing to death one of the three male attackers that attempted to rape her niece. The prosecution's case for why Nazanin is guilty is JAW DROPPING!:
http://www.iranpressnews.com/english/source/019437.html
>As I said before, you might have missed it, by vengeance I just meant
reacting in kind and only in self defense.
Then why didn't you just say "self defense" it's completely different from "vengeance" Not to mention you transitioned into vengeance from previous statements about justice, not self defense.
Play it off, however you like, your other statements in the past have revealed your true colors on the subject.
>Actually it is the ADC (ACDC is a music group)
There's an AACDC, which I thought you were referring too.
I didn't have to look far to get a less than favorable review about the ADC from an Syrian dissident blog (excerpt):
"Now considering the fact that the basic mission of the ADC is to seek to protect the basic rights of Arab Americans by reporting instances of abuse and lobbying against the passing of any anti-Arab legislation or to work to revoke those that have already been passed, is it by any means reasonable and/or consistent of them to invite such characters to speak at their functions? Is it reasonable for a rights organization to commiserate and empower some of the worst abusers of human rights in the world?"
http://amarji.blogspot.com/2006/06/adc-arab-discrimination-committee.html
(Scroll Down)
>It is not "wanting" it is "already" lobbying for cutting aid to israel unless they respect UN resolutions (194...).
Fine, Israel with uphold the UN resolutions on it and HA can uphold the resolutions against it and DISARM!
And given that the US's latest priority in Jerusalem is cutting aid to Hamas and bolstering Fatah, good luck trying to get US help in cutting aid to Israel.
>CAIR is great too, they often participate to demonstrations
organised by the ADC.
Aside from what I've read about ADC in its anti American Arab discrimination and Pro-Arab regime Arab discrimination, CAIR is definitely "great too" with its orchestrating of prayers in mid-air on a commercial jetliner, an act that would cause controversy if done by any religious group, and their crusade to get the popular FOX tv show "24" taken off the air, they're sure putting all that Saudi money to good use.
But how can you support a group that's supported by the Saudi's who also support March 14th? Isn't that a conflict of interest?
>>There is also the issue of you currently residing in the US and not knowing the difference between the US Supreme Court and the Iranian Council of Experts.
>They are different but have certain similarities.
Does that bicycle you're riding on do other tricks? Because you're obviously back peddling.
A few posts ago you claimed that they were the same. The blatant differences have already been covered, but just to be thorough, here they are again:
In Iran: (">"=elect)
People>Council of Experts>Supreme Guide
In US: (">"=elect)
People>Senate>Supreme Court Justices that are nominated by the President
The GIGANTIC difference is that the US Supreme Court is made up of nine judges that pass rulings in a majority which can be appealed and reviewed later on.
The Supreme Court can only interpret the US Constitution and the value of laws passed by the US Congress(elected by the people), it doesn't set policy and IT DOES NOT HOLD 75% OF THE POWER IN THE COUNTRY LIKE THE "SUPREME GUIDE" DOES IN IRAN!
The US system with it's Legislative, Executive, and Judicial has checks and balances that prevent one from monopolizing power.
Iran has no such system.
>France is a great country, My wife and I are planning to move back there in a few months.
Maybe if HA wasn't on its quest to destroy Lebanon, you would consider moving back your native country?
For someone who sings so much praise for HA, you spend the least amount of time in countries under its control.
It makes you're remarks in their favor seem disingenuous, especially since you spend so much time living it up in the countries that outright oppose HA (the US & France).
>As for lobbying, I don't talk myself, I just accompany a beautiful American girl (from Palestinian descent) she's the one who does all the talking,
she speaks much better than I do plus she has no accent at all.
Yeah, that's probably a good idea. Wouldn't want those you're lobbying to know your true motives.
But if you end up doing some of the talking, be sure to mention that one about how the US Supreme Court and the Iranian Council of Experts are so "similar" since it's always good to open with a joke.
And, as I've said before, if you truly wanted peace in Palestine, you would speak in favor of adopting anti-Apartheid tactics that whould win you Western foreign support for the effort instead of bloody and self-defeating I.R.A. tactics.
>> finding similar comments celebrating the death of the former Israeli Air Force pilot on a Neo-Nazi website
>Which site is that?
Oh, come now, I'm sure you have it book marked.
This site featured the cartoon that was being This cartoon, circulated by the extremist Vanguard News Network, praising the deaths of astronauts on the space shuttle Columbia.
http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=8
>As for "celebrating" is too strong a word. I never celebrate someone's death, I think every death is a form of failure to the human kind.
That Kill Bill quote you posted earlier contradicts your adherence to "non-celebrating" in the deaths of others.
>I would rather say I "didn't regret" the death of the terrorist that was cowardly bombing Lebanese civilians from 30,000 feet.
And there it is, what your problem just might be. You don't have regret when someone dies.
Hey, I never liked the guy and he's been one of the most prolific killers for the sake of killing in the latter 20th century, but even I felt bad when Saddam was hanged.
Same way that US ship and submarine crews felt after they put torpedoes through the bowes and bridges of Nazi ships and subs knowing that what was once a formidable enemy has now been transformed into just another group of guys going down with their ship to imminent deaths.
Until you do have regret, no matter how horrible the circumstance, you're holding yourself hostage.
>>The other thing in common with the US's sporadic history of home grown Christian extremists and the Middle East's extremists is the poor and run down towns/conditions they come from.
Here you couldn't be farther from the truth. Many Christian extremists in the US are zionists (because they think it will accelerate armageddon and the coming of the saviour)
Oh, I think it's you that may want to check who's farthest from the truth. If you are defining zionist "because they think it will accelerate armageddon and the coming of the saviour" that makes the IRANIAN PRESIDENT AHMADI NIJAD A ZIONIST!!!
His whole goal is bringing back the 12th Imam (and Jesus, too) in 2007. The only way to bring back the "Hidden Imam" is through a catastrophic war (or armageddon).
>Nice alliance of facists indeed!! (specially knowing that these christians think jews are all going strait to hell!)
Yes, that's why I made the comparison between Christian extremists who want to kill Jews and Muslim extremists who want to kill Jews. That was my point exactly. Don't really understand the need for the "!" All you done is agree with me.
>>The only eason HA is so popular is that it was the only one that fought israeli occupation, physical torture, kidnappings, vicious tactics and unprecedented cruelty while everybody else was sitting idly by.
I believe Bob nailed you to the wall on this one.
>>>You might want to consider getting a hair or blood analysis done to check and see what the metal levels are in your system.
That would be easy my mom is a doctor, do you need any yourself? (she can do it for free)
I've already had one, that's where I learned about it. Other than being a little low in iron, I'm in good health, you may want to think about having it done.
>That is so true. NY is so much like Lebanon in this regard and is so much different from the visceraly racist zionist entity that is throwing out anyone that is not Jewish.
How is Israel throwing Lebanese out of Lebanon? Sounds more like the role of HA. Not to mention, how odd it is to hear your praise for a city that is run by the Jewish Mayor Bloomberg.
>If zionism was just the right to reestablish the Jewish homeland in its ancestral place, I would'nt have any problem with it.
The problems started when zionism also meant attacking and harrassing Palestinians, taking their homes and preventing them from returning to their land.For you can say whatever you want the fact is no party or country in the Middle East is against jews. Jews have been living here for thousands
of years.
But how else was a Jewish homeland supposed to be established? Not to mention, 20% of Israel is populated by about 1 million Arabs. Isn't there a little more to the story of why Palestinians were kicked out? Could it have had anything to do with their role in wars against Israel beginning with its birth in the late 1940's perhaps?
And although it is now Jews doing the harassing, prior to the creation of Israel it was the Palestinians and other Arab governments who took part in more than just a harassment campaign including the kidnapping and smuggling of Middle Eastern jews to Nazi death camps in Europe.
Remember the Salafist who proclaimed:
"In heaven your master is Allah, on earth it is Adolf Hitler" [Source: "Saddam and the Third Reich"-History Channel]
>In 2002 during the Arab league summit in Beirut, Arab countries unanimously recognised this in a resolution and a call for peace
toward israel. More than recognition of the right for jews to live in the Middle East, it was a regional integration.
If the Arab League had some actual power and influence their proclamation might have actually mattered.
But since the Arab League has been incapable of resolving the Muslim vs. Muslim conflict in Darfur, March 14th vs. HA in Lebanon, and a host of other conflicts, there's little reason to think that their token gesture would've been followed by any of the involved parties in the first place.
>A few days later sharon's answer was to assassinate dozens of Palestinian civilians, bombing them without any reason or provocation. We got the message, thank you.
Again, since Palestinian militants don't where uniforms, it is difficult to tell the difference between civilian and combatant.
Despite your assurances of their victimhood in the attack, I'm sure there's more to that, possibly a notorious bomb-maker or chief lietenant in Arafat or Hamas' organization was targeted.
I don't think Israel strikes simply for the sake of bad press and global ire.
>When I said "everybody sitting idly" I meant "everybody complaining about HA today" who were sitting idly then.
When those heroes were fighting occupation, what were you doing in 2000 Bob? (because myself I was f...ing beautiful american girls on the beach in New Jersey...)
And how, prey tell, did "f...ing beautiful american girls" help out with the HA war effort? HAHAHAHAHA!
As soon as I get out of debt, I'm gonna get back out on the dating scene and go bang a hot blonde chick in the name of Democracy in Russia. HAHAHAHAHA!
>Yes, bombing civilians from an aircraft is cowardly and terrorist while hurling missiles 50 miles away on military bases is not.
HA only sent missiles on civilian areas after israel repeatedly did so for days in Lebanese civilian areas and wouldn't stop.
Israel warned those civilian areas ahead of time and used precision guided weapons, unlike HA's irratic rockets, to take out specific HA holdings such as the financial buildings in Southern Beirut that laundered money for HA military wing.
> Further more HA did so not to kill civilians but to compell israel to stop from doing so.
HA didn't do squate to compel Israel to stop.
It was CNN, FOX News, MSNBC, CBS, etc. that compelled the IDF to stop.
If it weren't for the TV cameras, Israel would've struck quickly with a ground assault on HA strongholds in the south and Nasrallah's head would be hanging above Olmert's office door right now in a glass case.
TV cameras, are HA's true weapon.
>HA said stop hitting purely civilian areas and they won't send a single missile on civilian areas and focus only on military targets. And indeed very few israeli civilians died most of the killed were military guys and that did not happen by chance
Actually the bulk of those civilian deaths were ARAB ISRAELIS. And given the erratic guidance systems of the rockets HA fired, the military deaths were ENTIRELY up to chance.
>Even modern warfare has rules. israel used (to no avail) many weapons proscribed by the Geneva convention in civilian areas (fragmentation bombs, nerve gas...) while HA publicly stated that they were avoiding the Haifa refinery on purpose so they don't cause a carnage.
Cross apply Bob's argument PLUS it was HA, not the IDF, that was cited by the Amnesty International (not exactly friends of Israel) for specifically targeting civilians as the IDF specifically targeted civilian INFRASTRUCTURE (buildings of HA):
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGMDE020262006
>HA is far from perfect but if anything they prooved to be morally superior on this one.
Your buddies over at Amnesty International don't seem to share that view of "morally superior"
>Not only fragmentation weapons were used in civilian areas but they were used for that specific purpose (targeting civilians). En effet these weapons were used AFTER the cessez le feu and that agreements were reached not during the conflict with HA.
HA used rockets with ball bearings that exploded and sent shrapnel in all directions in civilian areas.
>- 2000 lebanese civilians killed, 0 israeli civilian killed, 0 israeli refugee and their economy not affected
or
- 1200 Lebanese civilians killed, 34 israeli civilians dead, 300,000 israeli refugees and their economy affected like ours is?
Philosophical choice indeed. You choose 1, I choose 2. But again I respect your choice.
It turned out to be "3."
3. 1200 Lebanese civilians killed, 34 israeli civilians dead, the refugees and the Israeli economy are now doing fine, especially compared to Lebanon.
Ok, see you over at "Crying wolf"
I've created my own new Hizballa Campaign Logo :) http://leaflesseve.blogspot.com/2007/01/new-hizballa-campaign-logo.html
Slavic Mike,
The IDF (Israeli Defeated Forces) did target Lebanese civilians specifically because it couldn't do anything against the military and morally superior Hezbollah fighters.
Sam
proves, numbers, figures?
are you familiar with any of these?
Post a Comment